Recent pages

Edit
page

New
page

Print
page
Page last modified 10:09, 19 Aug 2011 by internetscooter
20
Redirect
Page Notifications Off
User:Internetscooter > Experiments Transitioning to Main Wiki > Wideband Oxygen Sensor (Lab Notes)

Wideband Oxygen Sensor (Lab Notes)

From $1

  • You do not have permissions to view this page - please try logging in.

This page has been moved from Internetscooters lab and now need to be refined for general use

http://www.vespalabs.org/@api/deki/pages/74

WBo22J1 Wideband Unit

PICT0966.JPG

The Oxygen Sensor is back on the agenda after getting a display http://wbo2.com/la1/default.htm

1st June 2009 update... the info below is a bit all over the place. Here's a summary... the Oxygen Sensor rocks! With just the display and a battery you can getting the unit working. Weld in a US$5 bung, screw in the O2 sensor and setup correct jetting easily. No plug chopping required and you can check the jetting across the complete range. The other advantage is that most dyno places don't like hooking up their expensive O2 sensors to 2 strokes. We used this very effectively in combination with a dyno and changing the jetting based on the reading showed correct improvement results on the dyno (i.e. the display said we were lean, we upped the jets and got more power.

Blurb From Website

./inhandm.jpg

Tech Edge 2J1 Features

  • Accuracy within +/-0.1 AFR over AFR 11 to 17.
  • Differential WBlin wideband 0-5 Volt output.
  • Uses new Bosch LSU 4.2 7200 sensor.
  • WBlin configurable with 10 bit accuracy.
  • Auto-cal button calibration with sensor in free-air.
  • NBsim narrowband (10 bit configurable) output.
  • 2 analogue 0 to 5 Volt inputs sampled at up to 40/sec.
  • RPM input from Tacho or ECU for logging.
  • PULSE input from VSS sensor or cruise control for logging.
  • 10.5 to 19.5 Volt DC operation (up to 3 Amps).
  • Free logging software (optional extra feature upgrade available). 

Fitting the Sensor

The Bosch LSU 7200 is classed as a broadband sensor (not as good as a wideband but better than a narrowband). Some info from Bosch can be found in Bosch_The_Modern_Oxygen_Sensor.pdf and Bosch_lsu_info.pdf. 

The first problem is the positioning of the sensor so it has the right running temperature. Techedge state "It’s possible to locate a sensor 300 mm (12”) from a single cylinder runner pipe (such as on an air-cooled motorbike)" (Tech Edge Wideband Oxygen Sensor Installation Guide lsuinstal.pdf), however it is not clear whether this is for a 4 or 2 stroke.

I gave Techedge a call and the 300mm is only a rough guess, which is a good rule of thumb for general purpose. It is more importantant chose a safe spot around that location with a preference to the sensor avoiding damage. THe sensor should not exceed it's 700C operating temperature. Note: The sensor would only be fitted for carb tuning and not used all the time, so a cooler spoy requiring battery power to keep it heated is not an issue.

Lab Notes

First attempt at using it failed as a standard 5amp power supply. The unit did all the correct flashing but not data came out and the sesnor did not heat up. did not put out the correct current consistancy. Apparently this info was on the website somewhere, I found this which might be handy.

Second attempt failed using a scooter battery, sensor heated up but then unit failed to start (leds dimmed and disappear). Can only assume that I need more power (isn't that always the way :).

Third attempt hooked up with battery and power supply. Yes it made a difference, the unit LED seemed to do what it should and the sensor heated up. However no data was to be seen... need to read up on how to test this.

Forth attempt (Success!) after speaking with techedge I was told the wbconf tool should be able to detect the unit. It did something funny with com1 (led switched off on the unit) so I tried com2... getting some data now :)

tewblog_2j1setting.JPG

What the data looks like

Using WBConf I set the data to ascii using  1.5 ASCII mode   (s0380) command. The resulting information when tracing looks like...

 029B,025C,025C,0000,0307,048A,0C8A,1781,0004,019F,0001,1D39,06E1,00D2,0300,02AC,0000,00BA,03AD

File:C:/DOCUME~1/INTERN~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpgImporting the log file into Excel and doing a "hex3dec" conversion column B looks promising... but isn't, wrong data!
 

./excell graph.jpg

Understanding the Data

Decoding the ASCII/Hex version of each frame, without the CRC and frame header information...

From techedge...
 

"I guess many people don't know that we had a version 1.5 unit and the
first LSU unit we sold was the version 2.0 unit. Anyway, the 2.0 frame
to use (as required by TEwbLog and our displays, is described here:

http://wbo2.com/2a0/logger.htm#20frame

use this command to read the frame type you have selected

   g03

it should be e1 but it's probably 84

   e1 = 2v0 Binary Mode, (default mode, used by intelligent displays).
   81 = 2v0 ASCII HEX Mode (Human readable version of above E1).
   84 = Status ASCII HEX Mode, PID and error status information.

http://wbo2.com/2a0/logger.htm#softcontrol"

Using Output for other devices

2j1overview.gif

wbo2_2j1.pdf

Wide Band Output

-GREEN WBlin- - Ground reference for WBlin+, should be tied to GND or close to GND as it affects WBlin+ if left floating.
-BLUE WBlin+ - 9.5 bit PWM-sourced Differential Wideband output.

Derek can you take a pic of the Dtec diagram so I can check that blue and green are what you use?

Tags: (Edit tags)
  • No tags
Attach file or image
Files (20)
FileSizeDateAttached by 
2j1overview.gif
No description
26.31 kB09:48, 18 Aug 2011internetscooterActions
 Bosch_lsu_info.pdf
Bosch Info on LSU "Broadband" Oxygen Sensors
637.63 kB12:31, 10 Jan 2009internetscooterActions
 Bosch_The_Modern_Oxygen_Sensor.pdf
Bosch Overview of Oxygen Sensors
1106.29 kB12:31, 10 Jan 2009internetscooterActions
 excell_graph.jpg
excel graph of logged data - no butane to start followed by butane last part
62.7 kB08:55, 21 Sep 2007internetscooterActions
 inhandm.jpg
No description
23.02 kB21:17, 23 Aug 2007internetscooterActions
 lsuinstal.pdf
Tech Edge Wideband Oxygen Sensor Installation Guide
205.15 kB22:40, 29 Dec 2008internetscooterActions
oxygen13-17.pdf
Bosch general info on oxygen sensors
300.61 kB22:25, 23 Jun 2009internetscooterActions
 PICT0966.JPG
The bits including bungs
250.86 kB22:23, 13 Jan 2009internetscooterActions
 PICT0968.JPG
Bung welded on
226.53 kB22:23, 13 Jan 2009internetscooterActions
 PICT0971.JPG
Bung welded on
225.75 kB22:23, 13 Jan 2009internetscooterActions
 PICT0972.JPG
Bung welded on (note too close to centre stand)
231.37 kB22:23, 13 Jan 2009internetscooterActions
 PICT0974.JPG
Working Unit on Scooter
162.64 kB22:23, 13 Jan 2009internetscooterActions
 testproc.pdf
No description
230.77 kB21:17, 23 Aug 2007internetscooterActions
 testrun.txt
logged data - no butane to start followed by butane last part
15.09 kB08:29, 21 Sep 2007internetscooterActions
 testrun_2_bursts.txt
No description
26.72 kB17:47, 22 Sep 2007internetscooterActions
 testrun_different_modes.txt
No description
1230 bytes17:47, 22 Sep 2007internetscooterActions
 tewblog.JPG
No description
61.9 kB21:54, 24 Sep 2007internetscooterActions
 tewblog_2j1setting.JPG
No description
30.09 kB21:54, 24 Sep 2007internetscooterActions
 wbo2_2j1.pdf
No description
350.35 kB21:50, 23 Aug 2007internetscooterActions
 wbo2_2j1_logging.pdf
No description
194.85 kB21:51, 23 Aug 2007internetscooterActions
Comments (7)
Viewing 7 of 7 comments: view all
#1
TonyC says:
I thought lambda sensors like this were not suitable for 2 strokes because of the scavenging characteristics?
Posted 18:06, 14 Jun 2010
#2
internetscooter says:
They are no good for long term continous use (as you would need with fuel injection). Having said that though the sensor specs state a maximum oil content and that isn't much less that 2-stroke so you might be good for several thousand km's.

I am only using it so tuning the carb and then it comes off. So I have only done ~20 km's with it running. edited 23:17, 14 Jun 2010
Posted 23:16, 14 Jun 2010
#3
TonyC says:
It wasn't so much the life of the sensor but the accuracy of the data. My understanding was that they are designed for 4 stroke closed loop machines and that as oxygen is lost in the exhaust for 2 strokes machines it cannot be used for AF tuning?
Posted 03:35, 30 Nov 2010
#4
internetscooter says:
Hi TonyC - not sure what you mean by "closed loop". Can you point me to the info so I can have a read?

I trust the sensor accuracy 100%. When I have tuned a road bike using it I've never had a problem and the plug colour is perfect.

On a dyno day we followed exactly what the O2 sensor told us to do and saw instance results showing that the sensor data was correct. It even told us we needed jets that were not in stock, so we bought them, came back and did another dyno 4 weeks later. The jets improved performance as predicted and the O2 sensor had the same reading.

2 seperate dyno guys told me that O2 sensors work but they don't use them because they are expensive and get clogged up by 2-stroke. Dyno's use wideband which is a lot more expensive than narrow band (which is what I have).
Posted 09:04, 30 Nov 2010
#5
TonyC says:
Fuel injection, cat converter etc.
I bought an NGK wideband sensor a couple of years off ebay, on arrival and reading the instructions it said do not use on a 2 stroke as above, consequently it got put in the shed.
Says the same in Blairs book too about their innacuracy, obviously dyno is big business and I assume they set them up rich to compensate, probably unwittingly.
I know some karters do use them and recognise the deficiency but they run along side an EGT to balance it out.
I may be wrong about this but thats my understanding.

Just pipped your time this year on a ss 1/4 (PX small block), are you hoping to get out and break the ton in 2011?
Posted 03:07, 1 Dec 2010
#6
internetscooter says:
My Blair book is in storage but I'll dig it out in a few weeks when we are in the new house. I'll also have a hunt around the NGK data - everything I have read (and remember) has stated the only problem with the sensor on 2 strokes is a shortened life. So I am guessing the "innacuracy" *IS* the shortened life (as it clogs the readings go out). Using it for fuel injection its exposure is 100% of riding time, I'm only using (and plugging the sensor in the exhaust) for a few minutes when I change something. I'm also using other data (like Dyno readings and sound). I'm not feeding the data straight back into a ECU and forgetting about it.

"Just pipped your time this year on a ss 1/4 (PX small block), are you hoping to get out and break the ton in 2011?"

Excellent!!! Make sure you post your time to the following link:
http://www.100mphscooter.com/100_mph_speeds.html

There was also the following, but even a hotted up Vespa 300 missed pipping me.
http://www.motorscooterlandspeedfederation.org/results.html

Yes - I'm planning on the salt in 2011 :)
Posted 09:24, 1 Dec 2010
#7
TonyC says:
I remember reading about a device (dyno) for induction acoustics a while ago, I'll try and find it again.

http://www.100mphscooter.com/100_mph_speeds.html

I'm on that but it gets updated about once a year! 83.49 which I was pleased with for a standing start, I'm not geared for much more than that but hoping for 90 next season.

Keep it up, be great if you cracked it!
Posted 10:22, 1 Dec 2010
Viewing 7 of 7 comments: view all
You must login to post a comment.

 
Powered by MindTouch Core

Disclaimer: Vespa Labs contains information that is VERY likely to wreck your scooter and possibly yourself both intentionally (i.e. gaining more peformance while sacrificing reliability + safety) and unintentionally (i.e. misleading or incorrect information). Vespa Labs is only a wiki and intended as a dumping ground for information and not as a properly reviewed source. The same disclaimers that wikipedia.org use apply to Vespa Labs. The short version is use information at your own risk, both information on the main wiki and in the user areas are intended to be used only as "thought provoking" for someone that knows what they are doing. If you try to implement a "thought" Vespa Labs is not reponsible and if something goes wrong we hope that you live and update the offending information with corrections to warn others.

Vespa Labs is an international site and therefore may contain information that is not road legal in some countries/states and may also invalidate insurance policies. Treat all information as experimental and for "race use only" (i.e. not for road use - even if it is implied or explicitly stated). Refer to and adhere to your local road and legal rules, as well as the manufacturers recommendations.